Does this mean you’re not going to answer the question?
It’s no surprise that Jim West has responded on his own blog to the challenge I put forth earlier tonight. If you don’t know the background, please read that post first. Otherwise, you’ll be walking into the middle of a confrontation unaware of its context. To recap very briefly: (1) Michael Westmoreland-White posted a snarky but valid question on Pat McCullough’s blog. Michael asked, very simply, “When is the last time any of us have seen Jim actually make a careful exegetical argument?” The specific background to Michael’s question was Jim’s advocacy of “cessationism,” which usually comes in the form of harsh criticisms of “charismatics” or “Pentecostals,” unaccompanied by exegetical argumentation. (2) Jim posted a response on his own blog, in which he complained that Michael “hasn’t bothered to read any of my exegetical work” and that “rather than spend the money to buy a book and read careful exegetical work, [Michael] would rather pretend to have read everything I’ve written and then pass his all knowing, all seeing judgment against and upon it.” (3) Being a fool, I rushed in where angels fear to tread, and dared to actually (a) agree that Michael’s question was valid, (b) review every item on Jim’s CV looking for evidence of “careful exegetical work” on cessationism (or of any kind, for that matter), and (c) challenge Jim to either point us to that published exegetical work on cessationism or start supporting his broadsides in actual argumentation. Again, if you want a fuller account, read the originals to which this post links.
In my opinion, Jim’s response leaves much to be desired. I intend to comment upon in some detail here, so please prepare for a longish post.
Chris writes in another of his many “I hate Jim West but I don’t want to say it outright” postings he notes
Just to set the record straight, I do not hate Jim West. He’s actually a likeable, low-key guy if you sit down and talk to him. I do, however, object, and strongly, to Jim’s substitution of pronouncements for argument—and, let’s be blunt, his unjustified attempts to point readers to his off-blog scholarship when challenged on-blog to explain the bases for his views.
After the introductory sentence above, Jim quoted the following snippet from my earlier post:
I am sick to death of holding my tongue when hard truths cry out to be spoken. So here is my challenge to Jim: either show us where you have previously published your “exegetical work” on the topic at hand (in this case, cessationism, but it could be anything), or stop ranting and start arguing, in the best of senses. Of course I have no “standing” or “authority” to make such a challenge, except as
a fellowanother (must … avoid … gender … bias) “biblioblogger” who does think, contrary to Jim’s assertion, that a blog can be a place for serious, meticulous work—and that arguments should be made, not merely posited.
Insofar as Jim’s quotation begins in mid-sentence, please allow me to present the entire first sentence, and the sentence just prior to it, as I originally posted them:
One last note: I fully realize that this post could be taken as rude, as picking a fight, as picking on Jim, or just generally being a pain in the posterior. But at the moment, due to factors that have nothing whatsoever to do with Jim or Michael or Pat, I am sick to death of holding my tongue when hard truths cry out to be spoken.
I emphasize a key phrase above only to underscore the fact that there is no “get Jim!” vendetta or anything of that sort lying behind my challenge.
Instead of answering the question, though, Jim responds with a counter-challenge:
To which I reply- simply- Chris, show us ANYTHING that you’ve written on any topic, besides on your blog, that justifies anything in the above cited post. The citations you provide of various and sundry bits by me are written for a specific sort of audience; and your failure to take that into account validates the presumption that your bias is irrational and misdirected.
First, I’m not sure how my own writing is even relevant to “justif[ying] anything in the above cited post.” In the “above cited post”—that is, my “challenge” post—I simply asked Jim to identify in which of his “book[s], article[s], essay[s], or published review[s]” he had presented “exegetical work” related to “cessationism,” the specific topic that ruffled Michael’s feathers and brought forth Michael’s comment. Why would anything I have written or not written validate or invalidate this question?
Second, I will readily admit that I have not published a single scholarly word about the topic of “cessationism.” Aside from memorizing a few stock cessationist arguments back in my college days—in the original post, I did mention that I was more sympathetic to Jim’s cessationist views than to Michael’s more “charismatic” views—I have never explored the topic in a scholarly way. However, I do not go around making dogmatic pronouncements about the topic, either.
Third, I challenge Jim’s claim that I failed to take into account the intended audience of his writings. In fact, if you go back and read my “challenge” post, I think you will see that I explicitly took audience into account, at least for some items in my list.
Fourth, Jim uses an interesting phrase: “various and sundry bits by me” (the “me” being Jim, just to make that absolutely clear). As far as I can tell, I considered every item on Jim’s own list of his books and essays, save one. I’m afraid I did overlook one article from the Scandiavian Journal of the Old Testament 19, “Competing Traditions and the Birth of Texts.” On my first pass, I intentionally skipped that one because I wanted to check my library’s online subscriptions, to see if I had digital access to that article. To my shame, I forgot to back and include this one on my list. However, that “article” is actually a long (12 pages) review of Ingrid Hjelm’s book Jerusalem’s Rise to Sovereignty (T&T Clark, 2004), so it obviously can have nothing to do with the specific issue of cessationism. It’s actually quite an interesting book review and I enjoyed reading it, but a book review is not a place for making careful exegetical arguments, and Jim does not violate the genre’s convention in this regard. In short, Jim’s phrase, “various and sundry bits by me” seems calculated to sound like I cherry-picked irrelevant materials intended for non-scholarly audiences, working from an “irrational and misdirected” bias. To this, I can only respond that I would gladly give Jim’s “careful exegetical work” on cessationism, or on any topic of interest to me, a thorough and careful reading, if he would just tell me where to find it. I’ve gone through pretty much every work on his CV to which I had access, and can’t find that “careful exegetical work” anywhere.
Fifth, if Jim is looking for a “battle of the CVs,” I will just leave it up to interested readers to consider whether my own record of scholarship indicates an ability to produce “careful exegetical work” and to recognize it in the published work of others.
One more point before I conclude. Jim’s final paragraph reads as follows:
Finally, rather than feed Chris’s apparent obsession this will be both the last time I address or respond to him and the last time he is acknowledged by me. Not because his arguments have merit but because he seems to thrive on malicious denigration. If you don’t feed the beast, it dies.
I take it that Jim has no plans to answer the question about where his “careful exegetical work,” specifically on cessationism, is to be found. Apparently, rather than answer the question and point us (“us” being, at a minimum, myself and—if I may be so bold—Michael Westmoreland-White) to the work that Jim implicitly claims exists but declines to identify, Jim thinks it better to consider me nonexistent. It is, of course, a free country, and Jim is perfectly free to ignore me, and to delete me from his blogroll (as in fact he has already done). If my original post really did devolve into “malicious denigration,” or if this one has, I regret it; I don’t think that’s the case, but I leave that to you readers to decide (and those of you familiar with Jim’s posts on homeschooling or “charismatic” Christians might wish to compare and contrast my posts and his in the “malicious denigration” department). In any event, astute readers will notice that Jim’s blog has not disappeared from my sidebar (or my RSS aggregator), nor do I intend for it to do so. If I agree with Jim, I’ll say so (and have done so on many occasions in the past); if I disagree with Jim, I’ll say so (and have done so on a number of occasions in the past); if I pass on to my readers a news item posted on Jim’s blog, I’ll give him an appropriate hat tip (and have often done so in the past).
But I really wish that Jim would just start giving reasons for his views instead of blasting away at those who don’t share them—or, as in this case, at those who do share them but think that pronouncements are no substitute for argumentation.
10 comments Christopher Heard | biblical interpretation (methods), blogging

[...] in doubt, change the subject Apparently, while I was writing my long response to Jim West’s harsh backlash at my search for his “careful exegetical work” on [...]
Instead of answering the question, though, Jim responds with a counter-challenge…
Jim’s online debate strategies are similar to those of Jesus (I guess that makes him a good Christian in at least one way?). In the art of flaming I discuss how online invective and diatribe follows the pattern of challenge-riposte found in oral cultures:
“Jesus was skilled in the art of challenge-riposte, the game of verbal one-upsmanship played by men in many Mediterranean cultures…Such men don’t respond directly to public taunts and challenges. They escalate the conflict by firing back counter-questions, counter-accusations, scriptural one-upsmanship, and insults. The more you can dodge flame and stay on top of your opponent with counter-flame, the more honorable you are.”
So Jim is actually very honorable by shame-culture standards. The problem is that he lacks integrity by our guilt-culture standards. I too would like to see him answer questions directly for a change, instead of playing the Middle-Eastern macho man.
First, I didn’t know I had started something as I replied in the earlier post.
2nd, I agree that Jim is often very likeable and often very humorous–but far too often very dismissive without giving reasons or arguments.
3rd, I did not have cessationism only in mind. I am not a charismatic by personal inclination–am a rather reluctant “convert” to non-cessationism. I just find the standard cessationist arguments weak and I did not see Jim offer even them.
4th, pick a topic: We know Jim can’t stand the work of N. T. Wright, but has anyone ever seen Jim spell out what he dislikes and why, much less argue against Wright’s conclusions? We know he loves the work of Rudolf Bultmann, but Jim doesn’t tell us what is so wonderful about Bultmann and why, either. And so it goes on any topic whatsoever.
It’s his blog; he’s free to do what he wants. But if he wants me to take anything he says seriously, I am going to need argument.
I won’t compare CVs. I have been outside the classroom for 5 years working in church-based peace advocacy. So, very little of my writing in that time has been academic in nature. That may change in the future, again. Either way, whatever I publish is peer reviewed and the only self-publishing I do is on my blog.
Snarkiness done now.
Michael wrote: “I didn’t know I had started something …” And I would like to clarify that I hope I didn’t imply that Michael wanted to “start something.” If I used such language, it was only to set out the chronological context leading up to my posts. I hope I was able to do that without imputing any particular motives to you, Michael. If I failed at that, I do apologize.
Well done. Other than an opiniated blog there is nothing of substance in Jim West’s work (from an academic pov – I can’t say what he is like as a pastor). He has a dodgy doctorate and a handfull of vanity publications. Big deal.
Jim West’s attempt to refocus attention on to your exegetical work and away from his (or rather, the nonexistence of his) is not only irrelevant but evasion of the worst sort.
Let’s face it: Jim West’s blog is well worth reading for all the plethora of news items and opinionated comment. But academic or scholarly it is not and I can’t imagine anyone going there for exegesis or any other kind of substantive scholarship. And his self-published books don’t have much scholarly content either.
His blog is great for gossip and opinionated chat, but that’s it. Jim has what appears to be a mail-order doctorate, has a natural talent for learning languages, and is an avid reader. Unfortunately he has used these three things to create a semblance of academic acumen which doesn’t really exist.
Jim says that his Ph.D. is not from the unaccredited Andersonville seminary that comes up when one Googles the web. He says that the Andersonville Seminary he attended had an accredited Ph.D. program but then the seminary went bankrupt. The new diploma mill with the same name, he says, is a different beast entirely.
I have friends at the Association of Theological Schools, however, and they have never heard of an Andersonville Seminary.
Jim clearly did well at SEBTS back when it was not controlled by fundamentalists. So, I don’t know why he didn’t go to a respectable Ph.D. program.
As you say, he clearly learns languages easily. (The state of my German is dismal; as is my Hebrew. My Greek is in better shape since I keep it up. Likewise, my Spanish. I never learned any French, Ugaritic, etc.) He also reads very quickly and, when he wants to, can review books in insightful ways.
I think he could do academic work if he wanted. I think he has more fun doing what he does. Which is fine except for his dismissals and pontifications and complaints about OTHERS as “dilletantes.”
I wish you would look into Andersonville before you comment on it. Or as you say “My friends say”. Do you think that D.L. Moody could have lived up to todays accreditation? There are alot of fine Pastors coming out of Andersonville. Maybe a little humility is needed. I doubt J. Vernon McGee or even Dr. Jimmy Hayes would agree with you and they are both no-nonsense guys with fine educations. A humble school with Gods backing, or a Highly accredited with liberalism in there courses. Who has God always used for his work?????!!!!! (the nobodies).
This is an interesting thread and commentary. I know that Andersonville Theological Seminary is the exact Andersonville Baptist Seminary of the recent past. The school is not accredited by a an accrediting body recognized by the Department of Education, however, it is an affiliate memeber of the ABHE (look it up) and this will tell you that Andersonville has good programs and although not fully accredited is an affiliate member in good standing. You might want to read on the ABHE web site what affiliate membership really means. I can comment on Andersonville as a former student and graduate of the Th.D. program and a current Ph.D. candidate at another accredited school. Andersonville teaches from a very fundamental perspective and interpretation of Scripture. Many people, particularly biblical liberals do not like that and will find anything or anyone who will discredit their teaching. Well, the professors are excellent, the classes when done seriously and in accordance with the syllabus are challenging and will teach you much about the saving grace of Christ. There are some on this strand who could use a lesson in humility and who would really benefit from learning a thing or two about how to treat others and who might even find themselves in a very solid Christian Bible believing Seminary. The emphasis is not academic so if that is your motivation, you go to any other SBC Seminary or whatever Seminary you choose.
Andersonville teaches you the bible in a very simplistic way to reflect the Southern gentleman preacher that is Dr. Hayes, I enjoy that approach and found it both challenging and interesting. Andersonville focuses on what is important – Jesus Christ, Amen dear friends.
I would have to agree that this is an interesting thread. Let me give a view from the perspective of someone who is currently a student at a well repected, accredited seminary that researched many, many seminaries in depth before I chose. Please don’t take me wrong, I don’t say that arrogantly, I am living on mac n cheese to make ends meet, it’s just that I want to get the best education I can for God’s glory, not mine.
I will admit that I was skeptical of Andersonville when I first found them on the web. After much research I am even more skeptical. I was suprised when I called and talked with them that they require NO references of any kind from a prospective student’s church, pastor, etc. NONE! Apparently if you send them a check, your in. I don’t know of any seminary worth its salt that doesn’t at least require a pastoral reference.
Secondly, like it or not, they are not accredited. If that doesn’t mean anything, why do we have accrediting agencies? Could it be to maintain standards and integrity in education?
Thirdly, I personally know a pastor, who obtained a “Doctor of Theology” degree from Andersonville, most apparently for the status he thought it would bring him, and he turned in work that another member of his staff had used for a masters from ATS. ATS readily accepted this work, without question as to its academic integrity.
Lastly, in reponse to Dennis’ argument that the emphasis at Andersonville isn’t academic – Andersonville Theological Seminary is supposedly (according to their website)an “academic” institution of higher learning that is offering “Academic” degrees! If an institution proposes to confer upon someone a doctoral degree in any discipline, including theology, there had better be some academics involved, don’t you think?
I know my language has been firm, and I sincerely apologize if I’ve offended anyone. It wasn’t my intention, I promise. The fact of the matter is that degrees of this sort are an insult to anyone who has devoted years of their lives and countless thousands of dollars to earn a true seminary degree. I have the utmost respect for those people. Those familiar with anyone in seminary would agree that the majority of students make incredible sacrifices to study in a seminary to be used for the upbuilding of God’s kingdom. There should be sacrifices, there should be and incredible amount of study and “sweat” put into one’s degree. It should be an honor that is not easily earned, not just a piece of paper that cost $750.